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Draven782

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Posts: 101
Reply with quote  #121 
I know what you mean D...All this stuff is turning my mind into mush.

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Tim41

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Reply with quote  #122 
DD and I discussed this a few times. The article was a road I went down for some time but there is a lot of unsupported assumptions. "The Northern Bay Drug Community" does not name a specific source-it's unsupported supposition.
I guess the basic question is this: who had real reason to whack Ferrin, or Stine for that matter?
1) The Ott's....how much could she have really been moving and was that worth the risk of a whacking her? Probably not. There were plenty of customers in 1969...
2) The 3 bad cops....maybe. Much more reason than the Ott's on Ferrin. Especially the info on if she was alive or DOA at the scene-(the cop/love interest/possible hit for the Ott's).
3) To date, Paul Stine has been implicated in selling drugs but I've NEVER seen a real arrest record for him.
4) Then what proof is there of either of the Hunters and their ties to the drug community?
5) The reporter does not site enough reliable sources and the story gets thin to me in the end. A lotta trouble with the cover for some simple drug hits. Too complicated. Way to complicated.
6) Stine knew to much, tying in Kane and Lass...weak. All that can be proved of Kane is A) he was a small time hood with a low caliber arrest record...along with brain injury from a car accident-Lass was too clean. Perfect in fact. B) Kane gave her a ride to Tahoe and worked in the same casino (ALL that can be proved). The Hines Report falls apart right there because he does not have the names of the three employees who told him that Kane was more or less stalking her. It's the death to his theory-no matter how good it sounded. (Kane was an original suspect of mine and I initially liked the Hines Report.) Unfortunately he has 'reported' mob connections and if he was a loose cannon, wouldn't they want to whack him in case he was caught and was offered a deal? C) Again-where's the hard proof Stine dealt drugs or knew these people. How much you think a small time dealer (probably out of his cab) sold?
7) A drug dealer does not want to kill people unless absolutely necessary. They want to sell drugs. Killing people costs money and risk.
8) Generally, the article provides more unsupported theory than fact. Though perhaps this is still a good angle.
-I know I have been looking into the other cab killings in the time frame to try and find some kind of ring. Those kinda of numbers COULD hurt the Ott's business. The real problem is Stine worked out of SF-It's an hour to Vallejo at best...there's a lot of drug gangs between the two (Marin Drug Scene, Oakland/Berkeley Dealers, etc.) who would have posed more of a business threat to the Ott's.
It's a great theory-and I still look at it as having some ring of truth...just not the whole deal. I especially have a problem with the MM 'accidental' shooting if he set up Ferrin. They'd want MM silent also and it was some time before he went into hiding...but again: he could have feared the Ott's completing the job.
Some thoughts...I have more questions but let's start here with these.
DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #123 
Tim,
Well done, thx
Draven782

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Posts: 101
Reply with quote  #124 
The MM set up. I know this sounds weird but maybe that's why the kid was wearing all those layers of clothing. He may have thought it would protect him to some extent from the bullets. A type of half-ass body armour if you will.

I'm having a hard time buying the "He was so skinny that decided to make himself look bulkier by wearing all those layers of clothing" theory.

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Tim41

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Reply with quote  #125 
Diamond-as we discussed, keep up trying to make the drug connection. There is something there, but it has to fleshed out-especially Stine vis a vis drug dealing.
If he moved that much, why drive a night shift in the cab? Dealing out of the cab? If enough cab drivers were in on the ring than we could move that way. In addition to how the cab drivers died, can we find out if any of them had drug records? The SFPD is not exactly friendly to all this stuff as a lot of folks have found out.
margie11

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Posts: 356
Reply with quote  #126 
Hey I am with you on that Draven...in another post i talked about that...I mean if he was at lovers lane trying to get busy with a chic...and clothes kept coming off and off and off...she would know how skinny he was. I think that the layers of clothes is very important here...
Tim41

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Reply with quote  #127 
Having lived in BAY-most everyone dresses in layers. It's the Micro-Climates of the area. It can be hot one minute, then cool the next.
You can always tell a tourist in SF because they wear shorts and a windbeaker...and usually end up cold and shivering even in summer.
Draven782

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Posts: 101
Reply with quote  #128 
I agree with you Margie. Something is not stirring the cool-aid with this one.

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Draven782

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Reply with quote  #129 
I can understand maybe a tee shirt under a sweat shirt with a jacket but multiple pairs of pants??

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margie11

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Reply with quote  #130 
Also - about the drugs as far as Stine is concerned...I have not done my homework on this area..but I would like to throw out the possibility that he picked up Z because he knew him...and as soon as I just typed that i had another thought. If Stein knew this man he was picking up was Z...and Stein was involved somehow (maybe being the getaway car in some of the murders like I suggested before) then it would be ridiculous for him to write the address that he was taking Z to...so either Stein really wrote the info in his log book....or Z did. I think that it is a sure thing that Stein did it...so my theory holds no water. Just wanted to post this so that I could let you know that i found fault with my own theory. :)
Tim41

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Posts: 45
Reply with quote  #131 
If I was setting up the hit from MM's view...why not tell her he'd meet her somewhere rather than risking the chance of being there and 'silenced'.
Tim41

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Posts: 45
Reply with quote  #132 
Draven...ever lived in the Bay? It really can get cold at night and if he was skinny, he might have worn two pairs. I have, as well as long johns. Man, it can be 80 in downtown SF and in the 50's in the Avenues and the Richmond.
Your legs are the weak point in staying warm.
Draven782

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Posts: 101
Reply with quote  #133 
Well SOMEONE knew where that car was going to be at that time of the night if we want to believe it was in fact a "hit" of some type. If not then it was a random shooting from the beginning. Yes?


Actually I was supposed to go on vacation there this summer but the plans fell through. I'll get there though. Its on my "to do" list. In fact I have a really good friend who lives and works in Lake Taho. I may have to pay him a visit.

Been Surfing in San Diego but not San Fran.

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Tim41

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Reply with quote  #134 
Didn't he say they seemed to be followed that night?
Draven782

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Posts: 101
Reply with quote  #135 
Didnt he change his story a few times? I'll have to reread a few things.
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