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JCloser

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Reply with quote  #61 
Diamond and Link, I'm not really sure what you guys are getting at? Are you guys saying that the Stein attack was not cowardly and that the gun was used to "personalize" the attack? Are you guys implying that Z knew Stein? Not sure how this relates to our "Macho" "Not Macho" discussion. Please, go on further so that I can understand what you guys are getting at.
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DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #62 
In regards to the Stine killing, I personally believe it was more towards the spontaneous side vs the pre meditated one. At this point I do not believe that Zodiac planned out his murder of Stine, I do believe that it happened suddenly almost spur of the moment. I have no proof to back any of this up, it is just a conclusion I have drawn from my research. I also do believe it holds the key to Zodiacs identity, but that's another post.
JCloser

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Reply with quote  #63 
Diamond, if you believe it was spontaneous, then doesn't this contradict you prior post where you implied it was personal? Maybe I misunderstood you. I think what I was getting at was that he used a gun because he was fearful of a physical confrontation. I also do not believe he knew Stein, although I've been investigating if he did, but have come up with nothing.
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DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #64 
Yes Jc, it does contradict in a way my other post and that is what I find so strange. That is also why I find the Stine killing the key to everything, I really do believe it holds the solution to Zodiac
JCloser

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Reply with quote  #65 
Why do you place such value in the Stein murder? Why is this murder the "Key" for you and not just another one in his body of work?
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Link

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Reply with quote  #66 
I also do not think Z set out to kill Stine. I do however think Z set out to kill a cab driver. I honestly believe Z put much thought into this murder. I think Z even took a few practice runs to exact where, when, and how to commit the murder.

As to my earlier post JC, I was simply stating that a point blank range shot to the head "can be" a form of a crime of passion, or a personal vendetta. BTW, all of the Z crimes were "cowardly"...

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DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #67 
stein shot in head = not Zcharacteristic
stein shot point blank = not Z characteristic
Z observed crime scene investigation after crime was committed = not Z characteristic
Altering crime scene by wiping down cab = not Z characteristic

I could go on but the point I'm trying to get across as to why I think the Stein killing holds the key is that whenever someone deviates from a pattern, ritual, system, weaknesses, flaws, mistakes, clues are exposed that's a fact.
goldeneagle

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Reply with quote  #68 
Diamond, Faraday was shot in the head at point blank range. Out of the three shooting attacks, two have victims shot point blank in the head. Seems like it may be a z characteristic to me.
JCloser

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Reply with quote  #69 
Diamond, I'd have to agree with the Eagle on this one. Stein's murder has Z (executioner) written all over it. The ones that are peculiar and might give us some real insight are LB and the Johns incident. I believe that both of those crimes went off exactly as Z planed them. I believe he let Hartnell live and wanted Johns to escape. If this is true, one has to ask "WHY". The answers to these questions gave me what I believe is real insight in to how calculating and clever Z or the Z group was or were.
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DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #70 
I was prepared for the Faraday comparison. Faraday infact was not shot at what is traditionally considered point blank, Z stood out side the car and fired into the vehicle, Stein was shot in a traditional point blank definition where Z was right beside Stein and put gun to head and fired. Yes it might be a very subtle difference but it still is a difference non the less.
JCloser

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Reply with quote  #71 
Holly Molly Diamond, it might be a difference, but it is clearly an insignificant one. Clearly Z's method and intent were the same. The were both Blitz Kriegs!
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goldeneagle

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Reply with quote  #72 
Im sorry but you are mistaken. Faraday was shot while standing outside the car. And yes the police concluded that he was shot point blank. Its all in the police reports.
JCloser

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Reply with quote  #73 
Same with Mageau, the guy walks up and just starts blasting with no warning. I don't see how you can't see the similarities Diamond, they are pretty obvious!
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DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #74 
Guys, I do see the obvious similarities, but I also see the subtle differences. There is a huge difference between a guy walking up to a car or another guy and pulling the trigger as opposed to sitting next to a guy for 10's of minutes, suddenly pulling out a gun pointing it against the guys head and pulling the trigger. If you want to argue semantics over the work point blank that's fine, we go on for the next 6 pages doing that. What I am simply trying to illustrate is that when Z killed Stein, to it appears, looks, feels slightly different from his other gun killings. And there is a reason why after killing Stein he apparently stopped. And I don't just want to hear about oh because he almost got caught, to me that's not a good enough explanation.

What say you?

goldeneagle

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Reply with quote  #75 
I totally agree that there are differences between this murder and the other gun killings. I was just setting the record straight, because in fact he had done before what you said was uncharacteristic.
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