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DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #16 
Yea I hear you Jcloser, I don't have a good answer yet on this.
clamper1004

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Reply with quote  #17 
I have a theory on the book and the blood. The book could have been on the seat under him. In order for them to remove his body they would have slid him across the seat also sliding the book out onto the ground. As for the blood, the bare spot is probably a high spot acting like a small dam and the blood is just flowing around the ends of it.
DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #18 
Clamper

Totally possible. Do we know how long the body remained on scene before it was carted away?
clamper1004

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Reply with quote  #19 
I don't know about this case, but I used to drive tow truck for a number of years. I towed some homicide evidence cars and none of them less then five hours before I was called. After arrival I could be on standby for hours. One case was eight hours standby, meaning the body was there almost thirteen.
DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #20 
Yea that's what I figured, lot can happen to the scene in that many hours and that many peole around it. point is, I would be blown away if a conspiracy theory came up for this murder.
clamper1004

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Reply with quote  #21 
I agree, granted what I experienced was a lot later than 1970 but even back then I'm sure there was alot going on at the scene. That photo could of been taken to document that the book fell out when they moved the body
margie11

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Reply with quote  #22 
So in the one pic with the blood not on the ground...this could be the first one taken...then the blood kept running from him...and then when they took him out of the car the book fell out...(or the blood kept running on the ground toward him and the void in the blood that i thought was made by his head "obscuring" the ground...was just made by something that was on the ground already)...ok...I think that I can live with that...even though I really thought i found something! :)
clamper1004

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Reply with quote  #23 
Margie,
Look at it this way, once the heart stops blood settles to the lowest point (gravity). Most streets have a crown in them to make water run towards the gutter. His head is hanging out the door making it the lowest point and that is where the wound is. Gravity would make that wound drip for quite a while. Now if you look at your gutter on your street, I'll bet you can find imperfections that could act as little dams with a slow liquid flow also remember that blood is thicker than water. I hope this explains what I meant a little clearer.


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Reply with quote  #24 
If we are to believe Robert Graysmith's account in Chapter 5 of Zodiac...

Quote:
When the coroner's office steward pulled the body out of the cab, Stine's bloodied San Francisco street guide came with him and fell into the street.


This would validate JClamper's theory.
Brian

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Reply with quote  #25 
I somewhat agree with Mr. Kaufman on this and think the Stines killing is based purely on the Radian theory. He drew a line at 57.3 degrees from his previous killing and it put him at that intersection.

What better way to get there than a random cabdriver dropping you off? Much like other serial killers who picked up prostitutes at random.
DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #26 
I go along with the radian theory, but I do not think Stine was the first choice of victims I believe Stine was a victim of convenience.
Winnie

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Reply with quote  #27 
Notice the watch on Stine's wrist as it hangs out of the passenger door of the cab... I wonder if Zodiac set the time on it as he did on the watch he left at the crimescene in the Cheri Jo Bates murder down in Riverside, 1966...
A Timex watch was found at the crime scene, stopped a few minutes shy of half' past twelve.

Below are photos of Stine's wrist with the watch, as well as, a copy of the photo of the Timex watch from Bates's crime scene...

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: DVC00076.JPG, Views: 107, Size: 291.61 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: bates_watch.jpg, Views: 82, Size: 39.22 KB 

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Winnie

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Reply with quote  #28 
Time has been, I think, one of the most important factors in the case. What firmed this up for me is exactly what you just pointed out regarding Dennis's conversation with Jack...
"What time is it?"

Only the killer would know this...
This is worthy of another thread, as we have deviated from Stine and onto another topic entirely, so this subjuect should have a thread of it's own.

Thanks JoAnne! I didn't realize the time was scrawled on the car door of Hartnell's car at Berryessa...there are so many details that people overlook, including myself!

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margie11

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Reply with quote  #29 
Just a note about the way they found Paul in the car. His arm was NOT hanging out of the car when they found him. In a report that I read...it says that Paul Stine had his torso on the passenger side seat and his head was on the floorboard facing NORTH. Notice how in one of Z's letters he states that the girl was facing west http://www.zodiackiller.com/ExaminerLetter1.html

Not only does Z love time...but he loves direction as well. I think that it is curious how he didnt get the EXACT location of the Stine cab correct in his letter for that reason. One Z carried out the murder...hoping to stop at Wash and Cherry...but had to advance to Maple...the other Z called in Wash and Maple as planned...and then when he found out the murder didnt happen there...he decides to say Maple in his letter anyway...so that the police would still be focused on one guy being the mastermind.Wonder if he was ticked off at the other Z? Ha!


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Reply with quote  #30 
Let's devote this thread to Paul Stine.

For a discussion about the watch/time element of the case, please post here.
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