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DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #1 
Assuming Jack was Zodiac, why did he kill Paul Stine? Did Jack talk about Presidio area as a point of interest? Did Jack talk about taxicabs or drivers? Did Jack take cabs frequently? What are your theories about this murder?
dennislkaufman

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Reply with quote  #2 
There are a couple of reasons why I believe Zodiac (Jack) killed Paul Stine. When Jack was stationed at Treasure Island in the early 1950's, he would have to run errands for the military throughout San Francisco using a moped. Jack said that the cab drivers ran him off the road on several occasions when he was running these errands.

Jack needed a murder at a specific geographical location that would make an angle of 57.3 degrees with the Vallejo murders when the two locations are connected to the top of Mt. Diablo. What better way to get a victim to a specific location then to hire a cab driver.


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Reply with quote  #3 
There have been several theories about why the Zodiac broke with his m.o. in the murder of Paul Stine. I tend to think that the Zodiac was trying to prove something -- namely, that he wasn't a latent homosexual as the papers speculated. Paul Avery opined that the Zodiac was "a clumsy criminal, a liar and possibly a latent homosexual". Avery went on to write, "It is the knife attack that leads investigators to consider that Zodiac may be a latent homosexual. His cryptic writings and hand-lettered boasts don't indicate this -- but the way in which he wielded the knife does hint of it... Psychiatrists and criminologists have told investigators that such a modus operandi could mean Zodiac is unsure of his manhood."

Unsure of his manhood. A latent homosexual. Imagine how this must have made the Zodiac -- with his braggadocio and his aggrandized vision of himself -- feel. I think the Zodiac killed Paul Stine, a lone male, with a gun (as opposed to the knife with its phallic symbolisim) to disprove the "latent homosexual" theory.

DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #4 
JoAnne that's an awesome theory, something to me just doesn't match up though to hold that theory as true. To me Stine seems like Zodiacs mistake killing. Something says that Zodiacs plan got messed up along the way, messed up by what, I don't know. It seems like there wasn't any methodology in Stines killing, it seemed spontaneous for some reason.
scarlett

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Reply with quote  #5 
I am also inclined to believe that it may have been a mistake killing, or perhaps even an impulse killing. Maybe Mr. Stine said or did something that the Zodiac didn't like. As it was, it was not the Zodiac's ususal pattern, which is why I think he took great pains to take a swatch of the shirt. It was the only way he could prove it was his kill.


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Reply with quote  #6 
Diamond D and Scarlett, I respect your theories, but I still stand by mine. This is what Michael Kellerher, PhD., criminologist and coauthor of This Is The Zodiac Speaking, had to say:

"After the Lake Berryessa attack, Zodiac again compulsively read about his crime and followed news reports on the radio and television. However, once again, he had made an unconscious mistake by allowing his male victim to survive. This error was pointed out in press reports and there was uncomfortable speculation about why the mysterious serial killer seemed unable to murder males. This would have angered Zodiac deeply, touching a raw nerve of truth that he was incapable of understanding yet which caused him intolerable pain. With this raw nerve now exposed in the press, Zodiac decided to prove a point. The killer would claim a male victim in such a way that there could be no doubt about his virility, no further speculation about his sexual dysfunction, and no question about his incalculable bravado."

Reference: http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/kell1.html

DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #7 
OK so going on the 2 Zodiac theory, is it possible then that Zodiac did his thing on Stine and the reason why he was able to slip away so quickly and virtually unditected except for the kids who witnessed it, was because his accomplice was waiting in a nearby vehicle and they simply drove away?
JCloser

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Reply with quote  #8 
Wow, I never thought of that. There is no evidence for this of course, but it is possible. How did the police ever get the information that they were looking for a black guy? Didn't this seem like such an epically big mistake, didn't you ever say to your self that Zodiac is the luckiest SOB on the planet? Well, was he lucky or could his partner have made a call saying he saw a black guy with a gun. Another misdirection that allowed Zodiac to walk. That dispatch needs to be re-investigated, I mean they had him if it was not for that dispatch. Again no proof, but it makes sense of the little details that never made sense. Diamond, I think I'm starting to like you!
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DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #9 
Jclose

I see it like this, we have for so long looked at Zodiac as one individual committing the murders by himself. Now, thanks to you Jclose, let's go back and look at each known and suspected Zodiac murder as being committed by a tandem. How does this change the landscape of the crimes, does it make things more complicated or does it simplify and clarify some unknowns.
margie11

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Reply with quote  #10 
Can someone explain this to me? In one pic where Paul Stine is hanging out of the car...you can see his book and the other pic...when he is no longer hanging out of the car...you CAN see the book. When I look at the pics..you should be able to see the book under him...and why is the blood spatter so completely different from the last pic? Not just on the ground...but on the car under his head....could it really all just be lighting and the angle?

http://www.zodiackiller.com/StineScenes3.html

http://www.zodiackiller.com/StineCab3.html

http://www.zodiackiller.com/StineScene2.html

JCloser

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Reply with quote  #11 
The photo with the book is clearly different. I have seen these photos before and don't know what to make of them. Where did these photos come from? I remember bababijon (I think that is how he spells it)having these photos. Are the implications that the SFPD altered the crime scene for some reason?
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margie11

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Reply with quote  #12 
I got the first 2 from TV's website. The other one...I have no idea..I will try to look in my history and find out. They are different and it is really strange to me. I guess that they could have been taken minutes apart and the blood could have still been flowing somehow...but that "blank" under his head is what throws me about that theory. The book though....how did that get there? It is NOT under that guy or we would have seen it (or at least a corner of it) in the pic...right?
DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #13 
I think it can be assumed that those 3 or 4 photo's are not the only ones in existence, there are probably a dozen or 2 of that crime scene and I'm sure the body was repositioned a few times after initial pictures where taken, why? I'm not sure but even modern day CSI's reposition bodies to get photo's of bullet hole entrance, exits, and evidence that might be out of frame, so I'm not sure I'm aboard the conspiracy theory just yet, but you never know, seems like with this case anything is possible.
JCloser

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Reply with quote  #14 
Diamond, why would they place a book in the middle of the blood? That would contaminate the crime scene. If after the work was done, I still don't understand why someone would place a book in the middle of the blood? Was the book a bad read? : )
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margie11

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Reply with quote  #15 
The body just looks too much the same to me to have been moved and repositioned. The blood I can almost deal with...maybe he was still dripping...(gross)...but that book.... ??? Did the killer have that in his pocket...along with the other Stine items he chose to take...but it was sticking out of his pocket and so he had to get rid of it?
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