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jimmy54

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Reply with quote  #61 
Hi dmartin,

I believe the sketch to the right of the Stine sketch, as shown on Dennis's home page, is known as the 'Sonoma' composite. Would this be correct? I haven't seen a good explanation of which of the three is which, other than the Stine one...And just to confirm, is the sketch at the bottom of the screen (with dark hair, scar on the left forehead, adjacent to Jack's son) known as the 'Napa' composite/Lake B sketch? If it's already been explained on Dennis's site, I likely missed it...thank you.
wd707

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Reply with quote  #62 
Exactly, dmartin. That's the thing that bothers me about dennis reputation on here. WE KNOW FOR A FACT, that the lake berryessa composite IS NOT AN OFFICIAL or hell for that matter not even sure if that's the zodiac. Where as they other one is. The one made from lake berryessa was one made after some girls saw SOME guy looking at them. Yet dennis keeps comparing jack's picture and the NON zodiac composite.


I will be the first to say theres a few things that interest me about jack as the suspect. But I find it annoying that a lot of things that aren't true or at least not proven to be true are left on here to be spoken as truth ( bates a zodiac murder, lass a zodiac victim, and kathleen johns a victim,) NONE OF THIS has ever been proven true yet most posters on here think it is and use it as another fact for another suspect or a way to fit Jack. Please can we get someone to do like an official suspects and maybe possible suspects especially when the people I mentioned aren't even victims.
wd707

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Reply with quote  #63 
I agree. Most people on here state it as a fact that lass, johns and bates were ZODIAC VICTIMS but that's not true. They may be,but in fact law enforment has came out and said they are not zodiac killings so I don't understand why people still keep lumping them in with the real zodiac victims.


Here's my guess... I think jack PROBABLY is a killer the only problem is I don't think he is the zodiac. At the same time I wouldn't be shocked if he was the zodiac.
dennislkaufman

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Reply with quote  #64 
Unscarred, and wd707,

The fact that Jack owned a car that fit the description of the one that was seen at Berryessa, and the composite looks just like his oldest biological son, does not prove Jack is the Zodiac. This is just one of MANY pieces of the puzzle that fit. The composites, the writing, the automobiles, a confession, a hood, etc, all this is proof that Jack is the Zodiac.

Wd707, you believe that Jack is a killer but not the Zodiac. Could you give us just one reason why you think Jack is not the zodiac? You are starting to smell like Tom Voigt.
jimmy54

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Reply with quote  #65 
dmartin wrote:
The one at LB may not even be him. He was just seen looking at 3 girls. The other one is a composite of a composite - what would Z look like without glasses. The only really good composite to use IMO is the one generated because of the Stine murder.

Could someone explain why Z's hair would be different in the Sonoma composite? Is it meant to portray what Z would look like without glasses, AND longer hair? (I know this may be 'beginner' information, but this specific information is actually hard to find on the internet, and I'm not keen on paying $ to go on the one website.)

wd707 wrote:
Exactly, dmartin. That's the thing that bothers me about dennis reputation on here. WE KNOW FOR A FACT, that the lake berryessa composite IS NOT AN OFFICIAL or hell for that matter not even sure if that's the zodiac. Where as they other one is. The one made from lake berryessa was one made after some girls saw SOME guy looking at them. Yet dennis keeps comparing jack's picture and the NON zodiac composite.

To be fair, though, Dennis is comparing Jack's son Denny with the non zodiac composite...

wd707

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Reply with quote  #66 
NOthing on me smells like Tom that's for sure if you want to look me up on tom's website feel free to, I have pictures of the tour I went on with ed their. And by the way Tom banned me from that site for mentioning his arrest. So if you think I'm Tom your mistaken.

I'm not attacking you, I just feel some people are short sighted on Jack here. LIke I said I wouldn't be surprised if Jack ended up being the zodiac but right now I just don't feel their is enough evidence. I been wrong about other suspects... ala at first... then kane.... then in fact I was a huge fan of Gaikowski being the zodiac but I just recently read some stuff that is really turning me off.


There is some stuff that HEAVILY makes me believe Jack could be the zodiac But at the same time there is some stuff that HEAVILY makes me believe he's not. I would think you would like some people doubting or at least trying to find faults in your suspect if not then their would be no checks and balances. Most of my criticism is on FACTS..

1) bates has never been officially called a zodiac suspect, neither has lass. But most people here either state that like a fact or use it as evidence for something else.

2) THat your mother was killed by jack. I understand your story and it COULD be true but as of now it's not true. Could be though. But my only problem is that you state it like a fact on some of the interviews I seen with you. I just wish you would state it more of a feeling or what you believe rather then saying he killed her.


But at the same time if I was you I probably would be doing most of the same things your doing right now. So I think your on the right track.
schnitz

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Reply with quote  #67 
did anyone play jacks voice for hartnull
DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd707
Exactly, dmartin. That's the thing that bothers me about dennis reputation on here. WE KNOW FOR A FACT, that the lake berryessa composite IS NOT AN OFFICIAL or hell for that matter not even sure if that's the zodiac. Where as they other one is. The one made from lake berryessa was one made after some girls saw SOME guy looking at them. Yet dennis keeps comparing jack's picture and the NON zodiac composite.


I will be the first to say theres a few things that interest me about jack as the suspect. But I find it annoying that a lot of things that aren't true or at least not proven to be true are left on here to be spoken as truth ( bates a zodiac murder, lass a zodiac victim, and kathleen johns a victim,) NONE OF THIS has ever been proven true yet most posters on here think it is and use it as another fact for another suspect or a way to fit Jack. Please can we get someone to do like an official suspects and maybe possible suspects especially when the people I mentioned aren't even victims.


WD;

You have 2 sketches, 1 sketch is unanimously accepted as Zodiac, the other sketch is not unanimously accepted as Zodiac. You have a single male person who very closely resembles BOTH sketches. What does that tell you about the 2 sketches and the male in question?
DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #69 
Wd,

I totally get your point and I'm trying to argue with you. All I said in response to your post was that you have 2 sketches ok, one of the sketches is accepted to be of the zodiac ok, the other sketch is debatable. You have this guy Jack, who looks like BOTH sketches. My question is how can that be?

Think about is this way, if the 2 sketches are of 2 completely different people, how can 1 guy look almost identical to BOTH sketches?

I am not saying both sketches are Zodiac ok, all I am asking is how can 1 guy look like both? That's it.
DD
DiamondD

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Reply with quote  #70 
Oh and Wd, I haven't seen a Zodiac msg board yet that first off doesn't have a favorite suspect and second, defends that suspect tooth and nail. So don't make it sound like this board is the only board that is passionate about a particular suspect.

wd707

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Reply with quote  #71 
Oh yea I agree with you on the 2nd point. Trust me even I have my favorite suspect (and it has changed over time a few times) so it's not about that at all. In fact I liked jack a lot back about a year ago when I first found this website. A lot of things added up for me but the reason why in the end I changed my mind was because of the things that didn't add up.


And about the sketch im in the middle on that.I think it looks a little similiar but I wouldn't say they look just like each other. It's possible it could be but at the same time it's possible its not.

Also let me be clear about a few other things so you guys know im not just making trouble. You know how I said don't state it as a fact about bates, johns, lass being zodiac victims ( because that can't be proven) even I think the zodiac probably killed one of them. But I just dont want to assume that because that's what throws problems into finding suspects when you assume things. That's my reasoning why I wish people wouldn't say them as fact rather just say you believe or something like that.
jimmy54

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Reply with quote  #72 
wd707 wrote:
All I'm saying about the sketch is that is it different from the main sketches given from the eyewitness account. All we have to go off the sonoma sketch is that "SOME GUY WAS LOOKING AT GIRLS" thats it. I dont know why you assume that was the zodiac?It could have been but it could not of been. I just hate to assume things that we dont know for sure. I mean theres A GOOD possiblity it could of been the zodiac but to assume it was and use it as proof and evidence is pretty shady especially if the goal is to catch the zodiac.

Wd707, I think the Sonoma sketch is not the one of the guy looking at the girls, but rather the composite of what Z would look like without glasses. The 'peeper' is the one at the bottom of the screen on Dennis's home page. I believe this is referred to as the Napa sketch, and DiamondD is saying that Jack resembles the Stine sketch and the Sonoma composite.

If I am wrong, please correct me so that I will have things corrected in my own mind too...thanks.
jimmy54

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Reply with quote  #73 
For those interested in clarification, here is a quote from napavalleyregister.com, Sheriff Dave Collins:
http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2007/02/24/news/local/iq_3833784.txt

"She was incredible how she answered my questions while lying on this blanket in terrible pain and going in and out of shock. We used her description of the man to make a composite drawing," Collins said. "Investigators canvassed the area with the drawing and found three young women in the same general area who were sunbathing. They said they saw the same man looking at them and acting suspicious about an hour before he attacked Shepard and Hartnell. They said for some reason he just up and left. They were three lucky girls."


So, this 'suspect' was in the area only one hour prior. In my mind, that raises the level of suspicion. Shepherd's description (although she was injured) is a part of the composite.
Dennis is saying that this 'Napa' composite of the 'voyeur' resembles Jack's son Denny.

sleuth

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Reply with quote  #74 
Sigpro, I tried to email Michael Savage for further information but the email came back. I would like to re-listen also. Do not think it's online, but the show was repeated on Friday night @ midnight.

This conversation was on the Thursday afternoon show about an hour into it. By the way, I believe the caller was with Solano Co. PD, not SF, but am not positive. He seemed quite believable. The conversation originated with the topic of a man who died mysteriously recently in an elevator shaft in SF, and he was saying how SF does not pursue crimes, often tries to cover up. Let me know if you learn more...it's irritating to hear something like this and not be able to follow up!
cruz

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Reply with quote  #75 
http://radiotime.com/program/p_20626/The_Savage_Nation.aspx

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