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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #46 
Last thing first; I've have read the news and I wasn't impressed. Former DA Alex Hunter didn't believe he could win a conviction, the same goes for Lacy. "Beyond a reasonable doubt", that's the criteria, the keyword is "reasonable".

There are several pieces of "exculpatory" evidence that would have generated  more than a "reasonable doubt". I've listed those items in the past in my postings, they are available in the public forum.

Did she win a conviction or was he forced to cop a plea?

Bill O'Reilly is an ass, talk about a political media whore.

Lawyers act as advocates,  hopefully to flush out the truth, she wouldn't have to stay a prosecutor exclusively.

The ransom letter wasn't penned by either of the parents, that's been well established.

It was a deliberate and brutal molestation and murder of JonBenet Ramsey, not stemming from an accident. The child received one blow to the head that was hard enough to drive a roughly 1 inch by 2 inch piece of her skull into her brain and cracked the skull all the way around to above the eye socket. Her hymen was damaged with the broken end of the paint brush,that part of the handle was never found. She was strangled twice, the noose had a handle that was rather sophisticated in it's construction.  Several pages of the tablet that the ransom letter came from were never found.  Beaver hairs were found on her body which a source for was never found......the list goes on and on of exculpatory evidence.

The parents had no motive to kill their daughter.

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Praxis

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Reply with quote  #47 
I agree that there isn't enough evidence to legally convict the Ramseys because the BPD botched the initial investigation.  However, that does not mean that the Ramseys did not commit the crime - it just means they will never be prosecuted.  I am siding with the Grand Jury who heard testimony and saw information that you nor I and most of the public have never seen.  This includes testimony from Burke Ramsey which would be very interesting to hear.

In terms of the Midyette case, both parents were eventually convicted but Lacy didn't prosecute the case.  This was one of the higher profile cases that Lacy has been criticized for but there have been others.  In this specific case, the baby was obviously beaten to death and evidence shows that there has been a history of abuse.  While many child abuse cases can become complex, most legal experts at that time stated that the parents should have been arrested within a few weeks.  It took 15 months to get an indictment and that was after tremendous pressure from the media both locally and nationally.   If you do enough research, you will find that Lacy's performance as a DA borders on incompetent and she put politics ahead of justice.  I would not trust anything that came from her office.  Here is one of the older articles from the Denver Post:

 http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_4726616
TerryB

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Reply with quote  #48 

I've read everything about the Ramsey case that I can get my hands on, and reviewed all of it as well and there isn't one bit of credible evidence that the Ramsey's had a hand in their daughters viscous and brutal murder. THEY HAD NO MOTIVE ! , what part of that don't you understand ? (ret) THEY HAD NO MOTIVE to have done the crime and it was no accident the way the girl was dealt with.

Don't answer Praxis, if you're dumb enough at this point in time to say they killed their daughter; then don't waist my time, otherwise; you don't come off as being dumb, so I'd have to say that you're part of conspiracy to cover, there's lot's of evidence of an active conspiracy to cover in the Ramsey case, the internet is loaded with high cost web pages that claim the Ramsey's as bad but they offer no credible evidence, it cost money to maintain those sites, most of them are sites that don't make money, that in itself points to a conspiracy to cover.

NO EVIDENCE SAY'S THE RAMSEY'S KILLED THERE OWN SWEET LITTLE DAUGHTER, NONE !

There is evidence that Fleet White Jr lied when he says he looked in that cellar room and said it was "too dark", that white clothing, person and blanket would have stood out in the dark, either he looked in there or he didn't, this incident is one of the most important clues in the case, I think he can be convicted on this point alone. He saw her body in there because that's what he expected see. A demonstration for a jury will bear out what I'm saying, it's a repeatable scenario, easily set up for all to see.

Your statement about former FBI profiler John Douglas is totally false and misleading, if anything he's remained rather low key, he gave his statements and left it at that.


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Praxis

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Reply with quote  #49 
TerryB -  I have answered many of your questions. Can you answer one question for me?  Can you name all of the forensic document examiners (and their qualifications) that with a 100% confidence have eliminated Patsy Ramsey as the author of Ransom Note?  I cannot find any.

John Douglas was hired by the Ramseys attorneys and was not part of the LE investigation.  He did a series of interviews and the radio talk show circuit proclaiming the Ramsey's innocence.  You can draw your own conclusions, I have drawn mine.

Here are some of the reasons why I believe the Ramseys are guilty.  If you follow Cyril Wecht, he believes it was an accident and she was bludgeoned to stage the scene.

EXPERT #1 - Dr. Rusty Morris, top forensic psychologist
Mental disorder fueled deadly rage

Patsy Ramsey suffered from a bizarre mental illness that helped spark a "rage-fueled episode" leading to JonBenet's savage murder - that's the explosive scenario laid out by top forensic psychologist Dr. Rusty Morris.

"I always wondered if there might be Munchausen Syndrome-by-Proxy going on in the Ramsey home," Morris tells GLOBE. "That's a disorder where a parent fabricates symptoms in a child, subjecting him or her to unnecessary medical tests or even surgery. A person with this condition craves attention and will do anything to achieve it, even putting a child at risk." Morris cites the 27 trips JonBenet made to her - pediatrician over three years as a pointer. She adds that the young girl's chronic bedwetting problem may have been the trigger that caused Patsy - who died at 49 in June after a long battle with ovarian cancer - to explode in rage.

"I believe Patsy's stressors may have overtaken her that night," says Morris. "There was a rage-fueled episode where Patsy lost it, and JonBenet ended up dead. After that, there was staging to cover up the crime.

"This poor little girl had a violent end and her killer got away with it. The case ended with Patsy's death."


EXPERT #2 - Robert Ressler, former FBI profiler
Secrets of phony ransom note

JonBenet's mom fits the profile of the person who wrote the "phony" ransom note found in the Ramsey's home, reveals former FBI expert. Robert K. Ressler, who helped establish criminal profiling for the feds, says that the style, language and information contained in the note point to an approximately 40-year-old white woman from the South as the author - a description that seems to match Patsy.

"It's absolutely phony." says Ressler about the note. "Usually a ransom note just gives the basics, "I want this, do it or else". But this one was full of colorful language and mixed messages. Then there's the matter of why any kidnapper would demand money when the victim's dead body was left behind. It just didn't make sense."

Ressler points out that much of the note's language is feminine.

"There's almost a maternal quality to comments like, 'The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested,'" he tells GLOBE, referring to the way the kidnapper wanted the money handed over. "A hardened criminal would never use those terms."

Sixties-era expressions like "fat cat," French-influenced vocabulary such as "attache" and the demand for $118,000 - just $150 less than John Ramsey's annual bonus - might also point to a person like Patsy, who grew up in the '60s, studied French and was familiar with her husband's finances.
Someone else with that knowledge probably would have demanded more.

Says Ressler, "If a kidnapper knew John's company was worth a billion dollars, he or she would have asked for 10 times that amount."


EXPERT #3 - Dr. Steven E. Pitt, recognized forensic psychiatrist
The big "act"

Patsy Ramsey gave Oscar-quality performances during police interviews about the murder, if you believe nationally recognized forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Steven E. Pitt.

Pitt, a former consultant for the Boulder police and D.A.'s office, who scrutinized the videotaped interviews, tells GLOBE that one particular exchange between cops and JonBenet's mom "caused me to practically jump out of my seat.

"It's the part where Patsy denied any knowledge of how pineapple got into the child's digestive tract after the family arrived home from a party. She snarled that she had put the girl right to bed and hadn't served her fruit.

"But this was a glaring inconsistency because there was a spoon and bowl of fresh pineapple in the breakfast nook, and the bowl had Patsy's fingerprints on it."

He adds that Patsy gave other misleading testimony and pegs her as being more than a match for her interrogators.

"Academy Awards have been given out for lesser performances," says Pitt. "She was a very attractive woman, almost seductive. She knew how to work her Southern charm and was definitely a seasoned performer."


Expert #4 - David S. Liebman, handwriting expert
More secrets of phony ransom note

"I'm not saying Patsy killed JonBenet, but I'm convinced there's an extremely high probability she was the person who wrote the ransom note," says handwriting expert David S. Liebman, who completed his work for a private attorney in 1997 and is now sharing his conclusions with GLOBE.

"The chance of a third party sharing the same characteristics as Patsy and the ransom note writer is astronomical", he says.

The 67-line ransom note, written with one of Patsy's Sharpie pens on a legal pad, is generally seen by investigators as the single best clue in the case. Liebman says that samples of Patsy's writing he studied had a whopping 51 points of comparison with the ransom note.

Declares Liebman, "That is a very significant number."


Expert #5 - Dr. Henry Lee, famed criminalist
Fiber, prints and DNA

Patsy Ramsey should have been brought to trial for getting in the way of justice for their daughter, charges famed criminalist Dr. Henry Lee.

"It seemed to me there was enough evidence to establish the level of proof needed to indict Patsy Ramsey of at least, obstruction of justice," Lee tells GLOBE.

"But in the state of Colorado, that lesser option was not possible as long as there was the potential for a homicide charge."

Lee, arguably the world's leading criminalist, reveals in this GLOBE exclusive that there was plenty of physical evidence, including fingerprints, hair, fibers, DNA, duct tape from JonBenet's mouth and the cord used to strangle her.

But none of the evidence tied a specific person to the crime.

"Even with all the evidence, I could see we were lacking luck," says Lee, who served as a consultant for the Boulder D.A.'s office.

"Many of the authorities involved believed that they lacked Patsy's complete cooperation, who seemed lawyered up.

By the time of the 1998 grand jury hearings, "I gave the case less than a 50 percent chance of being solved," Lee recalls.

"Thirteen months later, when its deliberations were completed but before the panel had the chance to vote on indicting one or both Ramseys, I told the D.A. that the best course of action would be to not file charges.

"It broke his heart, but he knew I was right - the case at that point was unwinnable."


Expert #6 - Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic pathologist
Sadistic game gone awry

JonBenet died during a sadistic game, concludes famed forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril H. Wecht.

"A very thorough autopsy was performed and reads like a horror thriller:' Wecht tells GLOBE. "All the clues are there to determine the terrible events that caused this child's heart to stop beating."

Cause of death for the 3-foot-ll, 45-pound girl was ligature strangulation and a severely fractured skull. She also had abrasions on various body parts and suffered vaginal injuries.

"The crucial element here is that the cord was not intended to kill JonBenet" says Wecht. "It was wrapped rather gently around her neck with no hemorrhages or fractures, which means this was an accidental strangulation.

"I believe somebody that night was playing a sadistic game with JonBenet, possibly for sexual gratification - and possibly a game that had been played before. The head blow and vaginal injuries were just staging.

"Typically, when I see sexual choking deaths, the perpetrator is male. But there have been exceptions. Since no semen was found, there's nothing to this murder that would exclude Patsy Ramsey as the killer.

"With Patsy's death the case is over."


Expert #7 - Norm Early, former Denver DA Norm Early
A wall of silence

Instead of crusading for justice, Patsy Ramsey avoided police questions in the murder of JonBenet, asserts former Denver D.A. Norm Early.

"She used lawyers, public relations gurus, private eyes and her own fat bankroll to erect a brick wall to shield herself from the kinds of questions you would think she'd want to answer if she really had nothing to do with her daughter's death and wanted to find the killer," says Early.

"Why didn't Patsy Ramsey camp out in front of the Boulder police department instead of moving with her family to Atlanta?

"And, when investigators were finally able to talk to her, Patsy was remarkably evasive when confronted with forensic evidence that made her look guilty."

TerryB

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Reply with quote  #50 
That's all bullshit, you start citing Liebman as credible and your credibility is zilch. The same goes for the rest of those people. John Douglas on the other hand proved himself by solving several high profile crimes. I think he's backed off because he knows that the people responsible for her murder are very ruthless and very influential.

Again: there is NO evidence that they deliberately murdered their daughter. You are another damn liar to post that crap.

All of the people you cited are making leaps in logic and applying guesswork based on biased and false  assumptions.

Had there been any credible evidence against the Ramsey's, they would have been indicted. Plenty of real evidence points to an intruder.

Fleet White Jr should be indicted, he either looked in that room or he didn't, he said he did and in so doing; he tripped himself up. It would still be easy to replicate that particular scenario, the white clothing, blanket and corpse would have been immediately visible. 

I think that John Ramsey hasn't wanted to believe that Fleet was his Judas, maybe there's more to that relationship than meets the eye but it can't easily be determined without more credible evidence.

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Praxis

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Reply with quote  #51 

Calm down.  I am citing some of the independent people who have evaluated that case and have given their opinions on the case.  You are welcome to believe it or not.  However, instead of calling people names, can you give specific reasons why you don't believe them.  I gave you specific information as to why I thought Mary Lacy was incompetent and backed it up with at least one news article. 
 
Also, the Grand Jury did see evidence and heard testimony that you did not and they voted to indict the Ramseys.  The DA did not believe there was enough evidence to find them legally guilty in a court of law.  Do you understand the difference?  This is a very common situation. There may some very damning evidence against the Ramseys - only the Grand Jury knows and they voted to indict.  That's a very strong indicator. 

Please answer my one question.  Can you name all of the forensic document examiners (and their qualifications) that with a 100% confidence have eliminated Patsy Ramsey as the author of Ransom Note?  You seem to have knowledge in this area.  You are very good at attacking me but please back up your statements with some documented facts and names.  Otherwise I consider your information invalid.

TerryB

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Reply with quote  #52 
That's all bullshit and you know it! You're behind the times. Your information is invalid and suspicious.

Had there been any evidence that that Ramsey's were responsible for their daughters death, they would have been indicted.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #53 
The only people that I gonna say the things that Praxis is saying about the Ramsey case are people that are part of the conspiracy to cover or even the actual perp, the things put forth by Praxis have been dispelled a long time ago.

I enjoy Wecht's  JFK stuff but he's off the beam on his claims about the forensic evidence found on the victim and he's practically alone in that claim because neither the Medical examiner nor the girls physician support that claim.

There's no doubt in my mind that Jack Tarrance penned the ransom letter, not only because it's his handwriting but also his initial's are integrated in that document in excess of 23ea times. Additionally that fact that he had a red outlined heart shaped tattoo on his arm that matched the red one discovered drawn on the victims palm is a direct tie in. I also think that he had the actual killer "follow his instructions to the letter" as was stated repeatedly on the ransom letter's text. The one lonesome backwards stemmed "t" is a tie-in to not only Zodiac killer documents but also as well as all the way back to the Chicago Lipstick killer wall writing, also the same goes for all of the little hooked letters. Jack was obsessed with time and celestial navigation (radians) hence the "hands of the clock" oddly shaped "D" on page three of the ransom letter.

The photo of Jack with Saums, etc is one of the best pieces of evidence because the reverse side has Jack's handwriting on it. His audio taped confession to Dennis is also a very strong piece of evidence in the Zodiac killings. The sighting of the Zodiac killer by police in the Paul Stine Murder is and exact description of Jack Tarrance as is the composite drawing of the same crime.

The murder of JonBenet Ramsey is exactly what the Zodiac Killer bragged that he would do, so are the 1976/77 Oakland County Michigan child killings; which I strongly suspect he was involved in.

The word "She" on page one of the JonBenet Ramsey ransom letter should tell any clear thinking person that the person that penned that letter was having fun, this is one of several reasons why former prosecutor Alex Hunter referred to the ransom letter as "fanciful".

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #54 
A careful examination of the morgue photo of the drawing on JonBenet Ramsey's left hand reveals that it is most definitely a JT initial clue with what appears to be a very small red heart drawn on the upper left corner of the "J", the right side of that J has a crossed stem, notice a slight skip in that stem and you have the Zodiac killer cross hairs as well ! GO LOOK !
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chuckhayes

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Reply with quote  #55 
Why won't terry just answer the question? terry can you elaborate on this post of yours?

Karr has a violent and self-centered streak in him, I think he knows more about the case than he's said, I think he's most definitely part of a pedophile ring, the evidence is there that he has also been very obsessed with the violent death of Polly Klaas (sp). Karr's cryptic statements lead me to suspect that JonBenet's murder was televised over the internet to a list of "paying" customers, customers that don't dare come forward.

I still suspect that the prime motive has to do with John Ramsey's business and was initiated by a business competitor that perceived Ramsey as a threat, this same mystery suspect likely has a very violent streak in him, the same goes for the actually killer of JonBenet. Perhaps they are one and the same person?

TerryB

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Reply with quote  #56 
What question might that be?

There isn't much I can elaborate on regarding what appears to be a quote of a previous post by me. One has to look beyond the obvious to figure out what the JonBenet Ramsey murder was all about, then things begin to make sense. It's the timing of Nancy Krebs and the subsequent timing of Karr coming forward, each had a message for one thing; that was to keep everyone thinking it was a sex crime, when in fact...it was a crime of violence. These coincidences and the evidence add up to a conspiracy.

I read the crime for what the evidence says; it was no kidnapping gone awry, it was no accidental death, no one wrote that three page ransom note after the murder, a lot of planning went into that note as well as the execution of the murder, a lot of spying was done on the Ramsey's prior to the execution of the crime, a lot of inside information was gathered on the Ramsey's. 

I do think that the pathway to the crime was via pedophiles that were into child beauty pageants, there was  probably a demand for more and more photos etc of this little girl, this underground business probably caught the attention of bigger fish that had ties to this elicit business, a big fish that was coveting "Billion Dollar John's" wealth and status came swooping in, I think that their goal was to "grease" the corporate ladder by damaging John Ramsey's reputation.

The sexualization (sp) of Jon Benet came late in the pageant circuit and with that last photographer, go study what happened to him and it also adds up to a conspiracy, they couldn't very well murder him too because that would point everyone in the direction of knowing it was all a conspiracy, so instead they probably drugged him, stripped him of his clothes and kept telling him he killed the little girl, then they let him loose on the road in that condition, perhaps they had some incriminating evidence on him as well to keep him in check.

Does that answer your question?

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chuckhayes

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Reply with quote  #57 
Not really. It's just a whole lot of weird conjecture and specious reasoning. It makes no comment on how or why a pedo ring would broadcast this on the internet to paying customers. It's Hollywood fiction type fantasy nonsense.
TerryB

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Reply with quote  #58 
Well, criminals seldom leave a log book or a diary of their crimes, do they?

So, one takes the broken pieces and tries to assemble them in ways that allow for all of the possibilities using branch analysis. Conjecture is bound to be a part of that reasoning, the clues support the line of reasoning that I've assembled. It's the only way all of the pieces make sense when added together.

One could leave off the whole line of reasoning that includes the possibility of porn/snuff film and the pedophile racket but that wouldn't explain things like the Karr factor or the Krebs factor and the timing of those events. It also won't explain why there is an active ongoing organized effort to tell the old and obsolete lie; that the "Ramsey's did it".

Also in the Zodiac crimes and especially for example: the testimony of Mike Mageau; his account of the very bright flood lamp on him and Ferrin is what the 8mm film cameras used back then.

In the JonBenet Ramsey vicious and brutal overkill murder; I also have a branch of reasoning that the perp(s) could have been dressed as cops or security guards as well, instead of a Santa Claus suit, the Santa  thing is supported by the victims testimony to Barbara Kostanic (sp) and her daughter. Maybe the perp(s) were cops....that would explain a great many things, especially the incredible behavior of former Boulder detective Steve Thomas, he's been caught in several provable lies IMHO and the in opinion of several other people that have carefully studied the Ramsey case.

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chuckhayes

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Reply with quote  #59 
The report states it was a flashlight. Not a high-powered flood light.
Praxis

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryB


Karr has a violent and self-centered streak in him, I think he knows more about the case than he's said, I think he's most definitely part of a pedophile ring, the evidence is there that he has also been very obsessed with the violent death of Polly Klaas (sp). Karr's cryptic statements lead me to suspect that JonBenet's murder was televised over the internet to a list of "paying" customers, customers that don't dare come forward.



Talk about BS and making stuff up.  It's statements like the one above that shows why TerryB has zero credibility.  Exactly how many paying customers were streaming video on the Internet in 1996?  Nuff said.
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