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Johnny_K

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Reply with quote  #1 
I do not claim to have all the answers to anything, but I do have a fresh set of eyes. In other words, I don't have a lot of long-held opinions on the cases. I hope that can be beneficial. Having said that, here's where I currently stand on things.

First off, I believe Jack Terrance was Zodiac. I think Dennis has made his case rather well, and I’m not going to argue that point. Having said that, I do not believe that Jack committed the murder at Lake Berryessa. I believe Denny was the perpetrator there. Here’s my case: The other Zodiac killings were marked by their phenomenal speed, control, and efficiency. The Lake Berryessa murder was anything but. When Jack was approached by the police after the killing of Paul Stein, he was so unremarkable that police officers looking for a murder suspect didn’t think to further question him. He was anonymous, he was invisible. Meanwhile, at Lake Berryessa, you had a guy wearing a freaking executioner’s hood, with a Zodiac symbol on it. If this individual had been spotted at random by a policeman, there’s no chance he could be anonymous- he’s literally wearing a confession. Jack would never be blatant enough to waltz around in a costume, like he’s the bad guy in a Batman movie. I think we can espablish that this crime was far enough from Jack’s M.O. that there had to be a different killer. Circumstantial evidence, such as the composite sketch and voice on the phone, points towards Denny. Whoever the killer was at Lake Berryessa also knew of the previous murders, which leans towards Jack’s involvement and knowledge. Again, all signs point towards Denny.

Second, if Jack was Zodiac- which I believe to be true- then it follows almost certainly that Jack was behind the Texarkana Phantom Murders. In fact, I think these murders are what led to the Zodiac killings. Let’s think about this from terms of psychology. People don’t just roll out of bed in the morning and decide to become a serial killer. There is some event that causes them to snap. In Jack’s case, I believe it was the killing of his girlfriend by the police while on the moonshine run. I think it’s fairly simple to see how something like that could cause an individual to develop some bitterness towards the police, and towards young lovers who had things work out. For further proof, let’s think about the sexual assaults in Texarkana. If you ask anyone familiar with these sorts of situations, they will tell you that rape is not about sex, it is about power and control. I think it’s fairly simple to see how someone who had witnessed the killing of his girlfriend would have a strong desire to regain some control in a “lover’s lane” situation, and also why he would be willing to kill young couples parked off the beaten path. It boils down, psychologically, to “If I can’t have that, no one can”.

Now, here’s where I’m going to step on some toes. If you agree with my assessment of Jack as Zodiac (minus Berryessa) and Texarkana, then it has to logically (and psychologically) follow that he was not- and could not be- the Black Dahlia murderer. That killing was sending a message- “this is what happens to whores”. In my opinion, Jack started out killing in order to avenge the death of his girlfriend (at least in his own mind). That is the exact opposite motive of the Dahlia murder. Now, I’m not claiming the photo Dennis has is not the Dahlia’s killing. I can envision a variety of scenarios where Jack ends up with the photograph, and remember- the photo we have is only a photo of a photo. Let me say that one more time, to make sure there’s no misunderstanding: I believe the photograph Dennis found was the Black Dahlia killing, but I do not think the existence of that photo proves Jack was the Dahlia killer.

Those are my initial opinions. I’d love to hear your thoughts on my conclusions. If you can show me where I made an error in logic or judgment, please do so. I look forward to hearing the opinions of the group.

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Occam's Razor always applies.
sixtieschick

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Reply with quote  #2 
I know Dennis has said that denny was back from Vietnam during the correct time frame to have been at Lake Berryessa. And Denny does resemble that composite. Do you think Denny attacked at Lake B with Jack's knowledge or without? Do you think Jack was there too? Since the writing on the car door looks similar to the letters sent to the newspapers, etc., it would seem to me the person who wrote the letters would have to be the same person who wrote on the car door. But then again, if your theory is correct, I suppose Denny could have known how Jack wrote and was able to produce a reasonable copy on the car door?
Ashlee

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Reply with quote  #3 
I have also ponderend the thought that the Lake B attack was Denny, based on the facts presented by Dennis. It does make sense, and the composite from this attack does not match the others, but does eerily resemble Denny.

I have been skeptical about the BD/LK murders being tied in. I don't think the evidence here is strong enough to prove that point.

Good observations, Johnny K!
TerryB

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Reply with quote  #4 
Based on Brian Hartnell's description of the hooded attacker; I think it was Jack behind the hood, Hartnell said the guy had glasses on, had a large belly and was about 5'10" and somewhat heavy. The killer was wearing "Wing Walker" shoes. Also he said the perp had a slow drawl to his speech as though he was southern.
The handwriting on the car door was a Zodiac and JT match. I think he may have wanted Hartnell to survive the attack.

I suspect that Denny may have been a "look out" that day since it generated the composite that greatly resembled him. This has been said by other besides me.

It seems to me that there were other nuances that supported it being Jack behind the hood, I thought that Hartnell somehow got a glimpse of the perps hair as being reddish brown, also as I recall he said the perp had somewhat baggy reddish brown pleated pants.

The police interview transcripts are posted online.

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Johnny_K

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Reply with quote  #5 
Wow, thanks to all for the replies.

Sixtieschick, you ask excellent questions. I believe Denny attacked with Jack's full knowledge and aid. I think Jack was there, supervising. This also explains the "Wing Walker" footprint, as well as the handwriting match.

Ashlee, you hit the nail on the head, in my opinion. There's an old saying- "When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". What do the BD and LK murders have in common with the Zodiac killings? Dead people, and that's about it. The Texarkana Phantom killing, as well as the Ft. Lauderdale killing in October 1946? Those might as well have been Zodiac killings. BD and LK? Not so much. Completely different M.O. ,completely different "message". The only way it would make sense would be for Jack to have multiple personalities, and I'm not willing to go down that path without hard evidence. I don't think the presence of another serial killer lessens- in any way- the impact of Jack's crimes. I also don't think it's likely that Jack was The Murderer™ in the US from 1946-1992.

In fact, I will go a step farther: I think attempting to tie Jack in with every high-profile murder in the US looks somewhat amateurish. Let's be logical, folks. When Jack was already living there, and the killing fits the pattern, then we can make a case. When you have to really contort the logic to make things work, when a far more reasonable explanation is "someone else did it", then it's really likely that someone else did it.

TerryB, while I disagree with you, I think we can agree to disagree here. I will say this, though- if Jack was under the hood at Lake Berryessa, then that was a ritual. Almost a grand finale, if you would. The culmination of everything he'd done up to then. And, if that's the case, then it goes a long way towards explaining why Kathleen Johns survived. Like I said, I don't think it's how things happened, but I can see where you're coming from.

In fact, we both agree that Jack and Denny were at the site, and that both knew exactly what was going down. We just disagree on who actually did the stabbing- which, if you think about it, almost doesn't matter.

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Occam's Razor always applies.
sixtieschick

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Reply with quote  #6 
When I have more time, i am going to search the board to see what info Dennis has posted about the Lake Berryessa attack.
TerryB

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Reply with quote  #7 
I base my suspicion on: 1) Denny didn't wear glasses 2) Denny was fairly young at that time and didn't have the belly or the body profile 3)Denny didn't have reddish hair 4)handwriting wasn't his on the car door 5) it's also unlikely that he wore Wing Walker shoes and pleated pants typical of what Jack wore but maybe.6)somewhat marginally related to this was the fact that Jack later on dipped his hands in acid to remove his fingerprints (ouch!)

This was a daylight crime, the hood could serve to conceal his identity.

I think that the Paul Stine murder was a very sloppy crime for example.

I trust Dennis at his word that Jack tipped him to the location of the hood.

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One small bit of info might make all the difference.
sixtieschick

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Reply with quote  #8 
Didn't the police determine that the Napa phone call was placed at a telephone booth at the Sam Kee laundry in downtown Napa, right by some car wash?
TerryB

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Reply with quote  #9 
I'd forgotten about the holes in the sides of the hood.

Because of the tremendous amount of details in these cases; I didn't state too much when I first arrived at this site, I just crammed and studied as much could at first, I like to double and triple check my facts first so I get them straight.

I've always wondered if Denny was somewhere operating a camera at the crime scene.

The killer wasn't as determined to kill two of the males in the Zodiac spree, with Paul Stine he wasn't out to make him suffer...he just shot him in the head...which of course is very messy, my point is that; the killer tended to show more contempt for women than men.

There isn't a lot of evidence that Denny was really involved but adding in that possibility does explain a few things, that suspicion is fueled by his statements to JT about how he'd like Vietnam because it was hunting season year round.

Nanette, please add more points if you can, I think that case summaries posted periodically would really solidify things nicely.

Oh, sixtieschick, that's good, I didn't remember that but I think you're right on that.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #10 
I remember reading about the phone call to the police in the Vallejo/Ferrin/Magau (sp) shooting but I'll have to go back review the LB case, I just can't remember that part of the case.

My though process is more like a "flow chart" than a "theory", I guess you could say that the theories are the branches of a flow chart, you try to test a theory at a branch, if it fails then you take a different branch theory if you get my reasoning.

I'd say that what we've discussed so far has adheres to that line of reasoning for the most part.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #11 
Yeah, "link analysis", "flow chart", really the same basic concept.

He might have really hated or was deep down frustrated with his mother and ended up taking it out on other women, which might explain his weird obsession, kinda like the Norman Bates character was of the Hitchcock classic "Psycho".

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sixtieschick

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Reply with quote  #12 
Well, I think Johnny started a new thread because he was presenting HIS theory and his points in support of that theory. Also, the way this board is set up, without any without any sections/headings under which to put related threads, finding old threads on a topic you are interested in or wanting to add to is quite difficult at times.

As for the Napa call, here is a link to some information http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport32.html from this you can see that the call to Napa Police Dept came in at 7:40 pm. The attack at Lake Berryessa took place about 6:30 pm. Since it only takes about 45 minutes to drive from the Lake to downtown Napa, Zodiac would have had ample time to attack and then drive to the location by the car wash and Sam Kee Laundry to place the phone call. This means that Denny would not have had to leave Jack at Lake Berryessa in order to place the call to Napa PD. Jack could have done the attack with Denny waiting near by in the car. After the attack Jack could have written on the car door, leaving his footprint, and then the two drove away. Also possible, I suppose, that Jack had Denny do the actual attack while Jack himself wrote the note on the car door. Just pointing out that Denny and Jack would not have to split up at any point during the crime and subsequent phone call, and possible scenarios of how the crime could have happened.

Let's not forget that LE found tire tracks from a car parked about 20 feet behind Bryan's vehicle http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport16.html

So it quite possible that Jack and Denny parked behind Bryan's car and then one of the two committed the attack. Then the two drove to the Napa phone booth. Jack would not have had to have been left behind by Denny to find his own way back, unless I am forgetting something.
sixtieschick

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Reply with quote  #13 
Nanette, I recall some time back that Dennis said something about trying to get in touch with Denny to ask him questions about Jack, the crimes, etc., but offhand right now I can't recall if Dennis was able to get any info from Denny. I think Dennis said he DID locate Denny and Denny's mom, but they weren't there when he came to the house OR maybe he said he did talk to them and they brushed off his questions. Can you recall? If not, I will try finding the information on the board tomorrow. Thanks!

Oh, what did you mean when you said that Denny made the call about the black man?
Johnny_K

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Reply with quote  #14 
Nanette, you seem to be taking this very personally. You shouldn't do that. I'm not some conspiratorial presence from another website, I'm not trying to deceive anyone. I'm a guy who got a link to Dennis' main website, saw a message board, and thought I'd check it out.

I'm just a dude who thought I could inject a little new blood into a forum. Beliefs need to be challenged, because that's what makes them strong.

I started a new thread because I'm the New Guy. (I'll bump an old one after I reply to this, because the obvious answer was never given.) On one hand, that is a disadvantage, as I have not spent years looking over every shred of evidence. On the other hand, it's a huge advantage for me, because I am not emotionally invested in any theory. That gives me the freedom to announce that the Emperor has no clothes.

When I came here, I'd never even heard of the Texarkana Phantom killings. As soon as I read about them, my initial thought was "wow, that sounds like the Zodiac murders". When it comes to the BD killing, if you're telling me that the same person was responsible for Texarkana, BD, and Zodiac, I'm telling you that the Emperor is buck naked.

If you want to convince me otherwise, please make your case. I'm going to need something a little stronger than a busted jaw in Texas, though.

Again, this is not personal. I'm interested in facts, and nothing else.

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Occam's Razor always applies.
sixtieschick

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Reply with quote  #15 
Nanette, I honestly do not understand your negative attitude. I HAVE driven from Lake Berryessa to Napa, and it did not take over an hour. The roads are much the same as they were 40 years ago, so it is possible for Jack and Denny (if he was with Denny that day) to drive together from the attack site to the Napa phone booth. That is the only point I was trying to make. I was not there that day, neither were you, nor Johnny. I am not saying I agree with his theory, but am simply pointing what is possible in the context of what could have happened at Lake Berryessa.

It would take maybe 10 minutes at most to walk from the attack scene to where the cars were parked and write that message.

Yes, there were phone booths he could have called from instead, but the fact that he called from the one at the laundry does not HAVE to mean that the person was there ahead of time. Perhaps he liked being close to the LE he was taunting with his calls, just as at Vallejo.

Sorry I mixed up the names Denny and Danny. Has Dennis ever been able to ask Denny anything about Denny aiding Jack at Lake Berryessa?

I also do not understand your hostility. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with Johnny, nor am I attacking Dennis or you. I am responding to someone's ideas and exploring the scenario he presented. I don't know why you are now jumping down my throat. Dennis himself said he believed that Denny was involved in the Lake Berryessa attack. I find it interesting to toss around the various ways he could have participated.

Sometimes I can't sleep and am up late, I don't see how when I
go to bed or am awake has any bearing on anything related to this board.

If I incorrectly quoted you, please continue to correct me. But when I quote people I usually am copying a post they wrote. If I was paraphrasing something you said and got it wrong, I again apologize. I thought in my posts I often make it clear that I am happy for clarification of ideas or correction of the facts.


As for the cult reference, I am not sure what that is about. But will be glad to address it once you clarify. Thanks.

Again, I don't understand your anger about the ideas being thrown around here. None of us were there, Dennis thinks or used to think Denny was involved at Lake Berryessa, so why is discussing the various ways it could have happened so upsetting?

I don't want to upset you, but really don't understand why discussing the subject got you all ired. thanks
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