Message Board
Sign up  |   |   |  Calendar
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 5 of 28     «   Prev   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   Next   »
jon55

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 575
Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic
I don't think anyone has ever published what pair of glasses Stine was wearing the night he was murdered. Everyone assumes it's the same pair that he's wearing in the headshot photo.


A very valid point.....I have no proof he was wearing the same glasses.....I will say this tho........these days it is very common for ppl to change their frames often but in the 70's not so much....but like I said I do concede that point.

I wonder what you make of her not knowing dad was a killer when she wrote the letters for him and the letters were all about killing?

__________________
Roll Tide
Sweetcheeks

Registered:
Posts: 396
Reply with quote  #62 
I received this email this evening from the linguistic specialist I submitted Jack and Z's handwriting to. These are preliminary findings. I have many more letters to submit, and as he indicated this job is going to be gynormous! :)

Enjoy as I did, in what we already knew!


Hi Nanette,

I read the Zodiac/Jack stuff. I can see how a handwriting expert would have a field day with it. The "apples to apples" comparison between Zodiac and Jack would be Jack's reports when he was a rent-a-cop. One gets the same kind of register, and when one reads these rent-a-cop reports, one is reminded of the Zodiac's letters somewhat.What those letters/reports have in common is a kind of broken formal register.....it screams "lower middle class hypercorrection" with fussy phrases such as "as to how" and "as of yet" "it may happen that" (all Zodiac).

I did find an instance of a rather unsual construction used both by Zodiac and Jack. Talking about Sandra jackson in a report as a rent-a-cop, Jack---in CD3 says,

"I and other Sgts have had several discussions"

The Zodiac used this unusual "I and (noun phrase)" construction and I made note of it, but I forgot where it is (I just spent30 minutes trying to find it again! Darn me for not noting where I saw it the first time around). It doesn't "prove" anything, of course, but it is an example of the kind of fussy, hypercorrect usage that Jack as rent-a-cop and Zodiac both displayed.

We have a person writing in 1969-1971 compared to a man writing in the mid 1980s. The former is practically defining the cocky "catch-me-if-you-can" genre, and the latter is writing in obliging "cop talk." If this is an apple to apple comparison, we're talking about a Red Delicious with a Winesap (or whatever).

The spellings and capitalizations could be studied in far greater detail. This is where our disciplines overlap. I would analyze the entire corpus of Zodiac letters and Jack letters---this would be a huge undertaking---and look for variation between upper case and lower case forms....the linguistic part of it would be to try to ascertain the de facto writing rules that Zodiac and Jack used to determine whether they penned a cap or a lower case letter. There would also be the questions of what KIND of cap / lower case letter they used (more your turf than mine perhaps), and if the ranges of variation matched up, then one would have something to go on....between a crazed 40 something killer and a 60 something rent-a-cop.

Jack wrote something that, alone, provided a bit of counterevidence. He wrote in "Jack Tarrance originals", page 6, "She don't drive" I never saw Zodiac use this vernacular 3rd person singular variant. Then again, I never read Jack write this way in his rent-a-cop reports. This little bit of variation spooked me. However, seeing that Jack was writing a personal letter, we have a different genre, a different "register" as we say, and variation of 3rd person singular is sensitive to this (somewhat).

Well, that's all I have for now. I'm really upset because foxes came by in the middle of the day and killed all 9 of my young hens (the older two and the rooster survived...it was quite comical...he was baiting the fox away....I ran out with a shotgun...have it loaded next to me..grrrrr darned foxes!!!

I wish I could find where the Zodiac wrote "I and......." Rats!

John

Wow! Pretty amazing this linguistic stuff!!!!!

__________________
Have a positive and inspirational day! :)
jon55

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 575
Reply with quote  #63 
First of all your expert has a really cool name......but seriously it is great to have a second opinion to SC, I think that we will have the confirmation from FBI in due time but for now this is good.

"I and other Sgts have had several discussions"
In the 7/31/1969 letter to the Vallejo Times Herald z wrote
"To prove this I shall state some facts that only I and the poice know"

A few questions........."lower middle class hypercorrection"
not totally sure what that is........he is middle class and trys to write very proper?

Will John be able to theorize in what part of the country JT/z is from?.......this would be kinda interesting due to the traveling he did.

I suppose that typing would be a different "register" because I dont write like this when I use a pen......it is usually a little more organized.

thanx for the new info SC

__________________
Roll Tide
Sweetcheeks

Registered:
Posts: 396
Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon55
First of all your expert has a really cool name......but seriously it is great to have a second opinion to SC, I think that we will have the confirmation from FBI in due time but for now this is good.

"I and other Sgts have had several discussions"
In the 7/31/1969 letter to the Vallejo Times Herald z wrote
"To prove this I shall state some facts that only I and the poice know"

A few questions........."lower middle class hypercorrection"
not totally sure what that is........he is middle class and trys to write very proper?

Will John be able to theorize in what part of the country JT/z is from?.......this would be kinda interesting due to the traveling he did.

I suppose that typing would be a different "register" because I dont write like this when I use a pen......it is usually a little more organized.

thanx for the new info SC


That's why I keep investigating, it keeps getting more interesting! Plus, it gives us something to debate over while we are waiting!

Thank you for the relation, I had just begun the painful task of reading back through all the Z letters to find it. I am amazed at how quickly you pulled that out! Do you have any of the letters previous to 2001?

you are also correct on the "lower middle class hypercorrection" Jack loved to use words he didn't understand or even know how to spell in the Z letters and in his own writings. I am excited to see what John can figure out, and yes cool name, in regards to this whole linguistic thing.

Actually he can conclude linguistics on you even if you type. That's so eery! :) Handwriting amazes me enough and now to go here!

__________________
Have a positive and inspirational day! :)
jon55

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 575
Reply with quote  #65 
Nope I dont have any of the original scans SC the ones I have I stole from TV 3 or 4 years ago and I dont think you want those also I just got lucky that was about the 3rd line of the first letter I read or that could suggest that he used the phrase quite often.

__________________
Roll Tide
jon55

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 575
Reply with quote  #66 
z used that exact same phrase ( I and the police) in all 3 of the letters he sent 7/31/69 to the 3 newspapers.....examiner, herald, chronicle.......of the letters are almost identical
__________________
Roll Tide
jon55

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 575
Reply with quote  #67 
Also I think and others have said this as well that z could spell better than he let on.........imo.....he had probs with a few words and compensated by misspelling more on purpose.......Ive been know to do the same thing.......and I also am wondering if I am "hypercorrection"........lol........maybe yall should do a psycological profile on me........just to be safe.
__________________
Roll Tide
Sweetcheeks

Registered:
Posts: 396
Reply with quote  #68 
My first thought in the z communications was that an itelligent person was dumbing himself down, but in reality I found that Jack had the same inclination to want to sound important through use of words. He misspelled funn! LOL come on, when it is 3 and 4 letter words you have to wonder where the head is at!
__________________
Have a positive and inspirational day! :)
Skeptic

Registered:
Posts: 58
Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic
I don't think anyone has ever published what pair of glasses Stine was wearing the night he was murdered. Everyone assumes it's the same pair that he's wearing in the headshot photo.


A very valid point.....I have no proof he was wearing the same glasses.....I will say this tho........these days it is very common for ppl to change their frames often but in the 70's not so much....but like I said I do concede that point.

I wonder what you make of her not knowing dad was a killer when she wrote the letters for him and the letters were all about killing?


I think parts of DP's story are plausible including not knowing her father was a serial killer. However there are so many other aspects that make her story highly improbable:

- GWH was much older than eyewitness accounts and did not look like any of the sketches.
- GWH lived in So Calif during the time of the Z murders. This means he would have to drive several hundred miles each time he committed the murders and also to mail the letters.
- GWH brought an eyewitness to most of his crimes. Not consistent with a presumably, highly intelligent serial killer who took pride in keeping his identity unknown.
- DP recalls events in incredible detail from an early age. For example, she claims to remember conversations and events around the Cheri Jo Bates murder. She would have been around 3 years old. Talk about a long term, photographic memory.

Interestingly, both TV and CF have claimed that details of her story have changed since she first approached both of them. I interpret this as DP using emails and message boards with amateur sleuths to fine tune her story.

I anticipated the DP saga would end after her first SFPD interview so I was surprised to see the following:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/19/BA1818AD1G.DTL
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Zodiac-daughter-talks-to-the-police-48571847.html

No matter what you believe, the one thing the DP camp did better than DK is having an effective PR strategy that gave them worldwide attention. This is what I believe forced the SFPD to follow up on her claims.
AveryJ

Registered:
Posts: 122
Reply with quote  #70 
How about the fact Little Debbie spoke only Spanish until she moved to California?

What mother would allow her young daughter to travel overnight with the stepfather?

Debbie said that Jim Crabtree was her cousin. Not true, according to him.

The only reason DP got an interview was due to the publicity of Lozzi & Associates.

Until I hear otherwise from LE, I don't believe a word she says.
AveryJ

Registered:
Posts: 122
Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic
I don't think anyone has ever published what pair of glasses Stine was wearing the night he was murdered. Everyone assumes it's the same pair that he's wearing in the headshot photo.


The photograph of Stine came from his driver's license that he renewed several months before the murder. Stine was a student of limited means; and generally in the sixties, one pair of eyeglasses sufficed. He needed to wear corrective lenses in order to see. Glasses back then were not fashion accessories but a necessity.

That doesn't mean Stine was wearing the driver's license glasses, but the chances are high that he was.
dennislkaufman

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 558
Reply with quote  #72 
This whole Deborah Perez scandal shows how pathetic the SFPD really is, no wonder Jack (Zodiac) liked to taunt them. Oh how wrong this is, it would be much easier for the SFPD to say, "we fucked up"

Kevin Jones what would we do without you...

AveryJ

Registered:
Posts: 122
Reply with quote  #73 
This just confirms that the SFPD is not working with the FBI. Lil Debbie has claimed to accompany Daddy on two crimes, one of which was in Solano County. Give me the Vallejo Police Department any day, and the FBI trumps 'em all. And this competition to beat out Dennis's claims is really what makes her case so pathetic.
jon55

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 575
Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic


I think parts of DP's story are plausible including not knowing her father was a serial killer. However there are so many other aspects that make her story highly improbable:

- GWH was much older than eyewitness accounts and did not look like any of the sketches.
- GWH lived in So Calif during the time of the Z murders. This means he would have to drive several hundred miles each time he committed the murders and also to mail the letters.
- GWH brought an eyewitness to most of his crimes. Not consistent with a presumably, highly intelligent serial killer who took pride in keeping his identity unknown.
- DP recalls events in incredible detail from an early age. For example, she claims to remember conversations and events around the Cheri Jo Bates murder. She would have been around 3 years old. Talk about a long term, photographic memory.

Interestingly, both TV and CF have claimed that details of her story have changed since she first approached both of them. I interpret this as DP using emails and message boards with amateur sleuths to fine tune her story.

I anticipated the DP saga would end after her first SFPD interview so I was surprised to see the following:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/19/BA1818AD1G.DTL
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Zodiac-daughter-talks-to-the-police-48571847.html

No matter what you believe, the one thing the DP camp did better than DK is having an effective PR strategy that gave them worldwide attention. This is what I believe forced the SFPD to follow up on her claims.


Agreed....mostly........3 points I have very small probs with
first if she is so intelligent ( and half of intelligence is pure memory imo) to remember details of a conversation when she was 3 how could she not know he was a killer....when she wrote the letters.

z was presumed to be highly intelligent but maybe he was just lucky....plus he was crazy so I could actually see him taking his daughter with him.

Third I do believe that it is the real DP who has been posting on the M/B's but really we have no hard proof of that either.......could be another nut just having fun.
I have not read CF's M/B in several weeks (due to time constraints not fear of Dennis.....lol) but if that was really her posts that I have read then she should have zero credibility with anyone rational.


__________________
Roll Tide
jon55

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 575
Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveryJ


The photograph of Stine came from his driver's license that he renewed several months before the murder. Stine was a student of limited means; and generally in the sixties, one pair of eyeglasses sufficed. He needed to wear corrective lenses in order to see. Glasses back then were not fashion accessories but a necessity.

That doesn't mean Stine was wearing the driver's license glasses, but the chances are high that he was.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dennislkaufman



This whole Deborah Perez scandal shows how pathetic the SFPD really is, no wonder Jack (Zodiac) liked to taunt them. Oh how wrong this is, it would be much easier for the SFPD to say, "we fucked up"

Kevin Jones what would we do without you...


Quote:
Originally Posted by AveryJ


This just confirms that the SFPD is not working with the FBI. Lil Debbie has claimed to accompany Daddy on two crimes, one of which was in Solano County. Give me the Vallejo Police Department any day, and the FBI trumps 'em all. And this competition to beat out Dennis's claims is really what makes her case so pathetic.


Very much Agreed>

__________________
Roll Tide
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply


Create your own forum with Website Toolbox!